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  #21  
Old 09-25-2008, 03:27 PM
michelloupis michelloupis is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 160
Default Re: Re:

I go even further. I believe it should be prohibited to point someone that pointed you.
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  #22  
Old 09-25-2008, 04:13 PM
kensimage kensimage is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 767
Default Re: Re:

This seems quite silly. Imagine a real-life (not online) party in which a bunch of photographers bring some of their work, and talk about photography. Someone (God knows why) keeps track of the number of conversations each person has, during the party. After the party, someone complains--"hey, not fair, my photos are better than Joe's but he had more conversations!"

Probably everyone would consider this a silly complaint--of COURSE the number of conversations is not just a function of the quality of a person's photos. It depends on how sociable you are, how many strangers you introduce yourself to, etc. etc. So why should TE be any different? Why is anyone bothered that some people pile up points for crappy photos? TE points are not a vote for whose photo is best--we all should know that.

Those who want to focus on relative points should do it within their own portfolio. At least that is some measure of which photos people preferred. Or focus on who the critiques came from--isn't one critique from a top photographer on TE worth more than 50 points from people who wouldn't know a composition if it fell in their lap?

Regards, Ken.
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  #23  
Old 09-25-2008, 04:39 PM
michelloupis michelloupis is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 160
Default Re: Re:

Ok...to put it in the simplest way I can. If you want to converse you give a comment. The ONLY reasonable reason to give points is if you truly like a photography and not to be courteous or friendly or swap points or make a chat or whatsoever...

Bye
Nuno
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  #24  
Old 09-25-2008, 04:48 PM
michelloupis michelloupis is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 160
Default Re: Re:

And I forgot. You should be careful with the use of the word "silly". If you have a different opinion just say so.
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  #25  
Old 09-25-2008, 05:10 PM
stego stego is offline
TE Expert
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,495
Default Re:

Ken, you put it very clearly!

Points are much more like "hi, I think this and that about your photo", than, "hey, your photo is better than the average", but many people insist in seeing the points as a measure of the quality of the photos, or, at least, they associate "I gave 2 points to this and none to that, it's because I consider this good and the that lousy". Come on guys, this isn't a contest! It's only natural that I spend more time talking (or writing) about the photos of the persons I know than doing it with others, possibly better photos. Is this wrong? I don't see it like that. In my early times of TE I made an effort to write critiques of posts that had none, of new members, or just chose more or less randomly those which I felt that I had something to say. I rarely do this any more. Why? Because the probability that I hear anything from those people again is very near zero, so I am only loosing my time.

I couldn't care less about crappy posts receiving much points and the opposite doesn't bother me much either, as those very good photographers out there don't need that their posts get much points to improve their work or their ego. In the same way, because I know relatively well many of the persons that critique my posts, I can know that a post that got much less the average points is actually more achieved, interesting or anything than that other one that got much more points. I insist that this is a community of people and much like you don't find many "really life" communities where people say bluntly what they think about you or your work, the same happens here. A "nice work... etc..." from Joe may actually translate to "bah... too banal...", while for another post, Tony can say the same and mean "yes, you did it this time". To distinguish both situations I have to know the authors and I only can do that if there is a continuity in the mutual contact, which implies, (yes!) critiques exchange.

Regards,
José.
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  #26  
Old 09-25-2008, 05:58 PM
michelloupis michelloupis is offline
TE Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 160
Default Re: Re:

Viva José,

I cannot grasp how it could be a waste of time to criticize a photo that deserves to be criticized or that draws your attention, only because you probably will never hear from that person again.

Abraço
Nuno
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  #27  
Old 09-25-2008, 06:44 PM
kensimage kensimage is offline
TE Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 767
Default Re: Re:

There are two essentially incompatible choices for what a site like TE can be:

(A) A place for photographers to create a social network with other photographers (sometimes leading to in-person meetings), and to learn from those other photographers;
(B) A rating/competition site, where people can find out how their work stacks up against others' best stuff.

There's nothing inherently better about one of these than the other--they serve different purposes. It's just that TE cannot be both.

Making TE a rating/competition site would require some major changes. First and foremost, the quota of points that each photographer could give out would have to be strictly limited. Second, photos would probably need to be rated anonymously. I could go on. The main thing is, it would totally lose its "social network" aspect.

I can think of three reasons why I come to TE, in no particular order:

(1) To see, and learn from, the work of other photographers;
(2) To get feedback from others about my own photography--which ones are most well-liked, and why;
(3) To be part of a social network of photographers.

If TE became a rating/competition site, I would lose (2) and (3); only the few best photographers would get significant feedback.

So let's accept that TE is (A), not (B). Figure out how to get the most out of (A). If you want (B), find a different site (and hopefully still come to TE for the networking, too.) But don't try to make TE something it's not.

--Ken
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  #28  
Old 09-25-2008, 09:01 PM
UnTrained UnTrained is offline
TE Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 333
Default Re: Re:

Dear Friends, you all wrote a lot of words to describe what we (a non described part of the members here) think of TE and I think you found a lot of truth (our truth) in your kind words. Some will always be disappointed as they see it different. I do not want to joke about them, for me it is obvious that they expect something like a competition. I am pretty sure we find often the same at work, that some need to put their work more into the light. Here it works only with the described social network by exchange. And the best is - as Ken wrote - the learning is still inside. We have some good girls and guys capturing, we all learned a lot and we have the wish to share this. I do not want to be better than José or Ken or Loïc or anybody else except one person. I want to be better than myself. I want to learn. For me this works, for a lot of you this works too, that is my experience. No need for any rules like the suggestions were here.
So please no photo of the week and no photographer of the week. It was a good idea from Adam to avoid any display comparison of points.
Keep freedom of speech and freedom of my choice to write a critique to whom I want.
Ulf
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  #29  
Old 09-25-2008, 09:20 PM
michelloupis michelloupis is offline
TE Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 160
Default Re: Re:

Hello,

The critiques on TE exist for one purpose, to make of people better photographs. The are not supposed to be used by a clique closed in an island to point itself back and forth. Green smiles are not intended to be used to say hello. They are conceived to make you improve your technique. I never mentioned this should be a race or a contest. If you want to greet a member use the comments or the forum. By not doing so you are destroying and distorting the general evaluation concept, a precious instrument this site puts at your disposal for help others improve their abilities.

Take care
Nuno
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  #30  
Old 09-26-2008, 04:23 PM
fkostas fkostas is offline
TE Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 325
Default Re: Re: Top photographer

Ken,

Yes, getting one notice from a "Top photographer" is worth more than 50 points worth of "Good POV, I like the F/G, TFS, You are SO sweet, blah, blah, Great sharpness" (it's unintentionally blurry!), and so on.

P.S.... To anyone seeking points, if you are too lazy for social networking via the internet (As I am), you may want to look into Sunflowers. They are the go-to shot. People love their Sunflowers. Even the book "Understanding Exposure" has a Sunflower shot in it.
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